Let's Talk: How to Have Better Conversations

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It’s not simple – the simple thing is to say ‘Oh they’re a racist,’ that’s the easy thing; the more difficult thing is to ask ‘How did you become that person?’ and to try to understand it and not justify it. I just couldn't bring myself to press that one star button even though I think this is one of the few books that I think might deserve it. That social attitudes in the modern world are polarised, and defined in the words of James Haskell as ‘I’m offended, prove me wrong’

And good conversation involves taking turns, not talking over someone – trying to silence people by talking more loudly, forcefully, and persistently than them. Read this fascinating book and you'll become a better listener, a better conversationalist and better company' Adam Kay For Nihal, good conversation involves listening as much as speaking. By listening we find out things about the person we are talking to which, in turn, help us understand ourselves. This is why Nihal says we are enriched by listening – we are improved by having something else added.The expertise trap is such a danger, and it leads to group think, it leads to all kinds of really, really bad decisions. So, the way to get around that is to constantly approach your team members with curiosity and understanding that even if you held a job 15 years ago, you have no idea what that job entails now and here's this person right in front of you who's in that job and could enlighten you and really help you out. And if you approach your conversations that way, you will never be short of topics. Nihal Arthanayake is author of Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations You highlight how, in meetings with loyalists, Mary McAleese spoke about being “good neighbours” rather than discussing politics. Is that the key to a healthy conversation: focusing on common ground? If you build bridges, you improve relationships between people who are very different or do not like each other. Oh, that's a fantastic story. And you certainly don't want to be someone who ends up becoming CEO and does interviews and you end up looking like a Muppet in your interviews when you're furious. I have had conversations with people in which they have literally talked about how smart I am after it's over, and all I did was craft questions, that's it. But it seems counterintuitive, but frankly, the more you worry and the more you focus on the impression that you're making and coming off as smart and coming off as self-assured, the less...let me put it this way, think about the definition of cool. When you were in high school the people that were cool are really the people who don't care. Those are not the people you want to date when you're 25, but in high school that's what's cool. So, think about it that way. Try to be cool in that, not that you don't care, but that you're not worried about how you're coming off. What you're worried about is making that other person shine, giving them a chance to shine.

Now before you think here’s another critique of public debate from the liberal establishment – Arthanayake is an award-winning BCC radio presenter – Let’s Talk does something quite original by setting a bar for conversation that only the most open-hearted can reach. No matter what side you’re on in the culture wars, you’ve no justification for feeling smug. So how does the senior leadership team change this stigma attached to what should be a really beneficial concept to this individual? Yeah, you just...okay, let me put it to you another way. Have you ever called up a friend and they just said, "Hello," and you said, "What's wrong?" That’s really, really great to hear and passion I think is a key driver for many people, but I’m sure it won’t surprise you to know that, for some members and some organisations, performance management is probably considered quite a dirty word and people may even experience it or see it as a way in which moving people out of business or being managed out of the business, rather than attempting to maximise that individual’s value or performance to ensure they’re actually contributing to that business objective. And, as you say, unleashing that passion.

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Unfortunately, we are in an age now when we tend to wholly define someone by one thing – you know, you’re Catholic, you’re Protestant, you’re a Leaver, you’re a Remainer, you’re woke, you’re racist, but that’s not all of who someone is. And one of the book’s aims is to encourage people to be a little bit more introspective about who you are, and look at your own prejudices and biases. If we do that more effectively, we can connect with others more openly.” in a conversation, look at the people around you like an orchestra. Your job is to give each part a chance to play - the strings, percussion, brass, and woodwind. I am interested,” she said, “in conversations in which people gain new insights about each other, themselves or the world — the kind of conversations college students often have when they are living in the dorms and staying up much later than they should. I loved these conversations, and still remember some of them and the insights I gained. After college, I noticed that the people around me rarely had those kinds of conversations, and I missed that.” Stop lecturing. It might make you feel good, but it only makes you feel good for a very short span of time. And it definitely doesn't make the other person feel good. Ask open-ended questions

In my role in Let’s Talk Talent, I spend a lot of time speaking with clients and their employees. And when speaking with leaders and managers, it’s always a big challenge in their world, about getting the best out of their people. I’m sure you’re experiencing something similar at the moment, and it’s coming up in my conversations time and time again, all around this leadership, development, Management Development. And it seems to be a particularly hot topic at the moment. So I’d like to really start from the beginning the foundation. In my opinion it could be improved with some key takeaways or action points at the end of each chapter, making it more of a self-help book for every day conversations. But these are summed up nicely in the conclusion. Absolutely. And I think that really ties in nicely with with the time management and scheduling and, and almost ensuring people that even though they’re not in a physical office, they don’t have to be running 10 times faster, because they’re not being seen every day. I think that’s a really, really strong key message. I’d love to take the time to the time to thank you for joining us today, Richard, and thank you for everyone listening on joining us on the latest Let’s Talk Talent podcast. It’s been really great to hear your thoughts and opinions, Richard, and I know I’m definitely going to take away the bonus conversations, because that makes me feel a lot more excited to have those conversations. Great. Well, thanks, Craig. It’s been a pleasure to chat with you today. And hopefully we both learned something. OK, Neil, I’ll reveal the correct answer later in the programme. During a long career, DJ and BBC radio presenter, Nihal Arthanayake, has had conversations with hundreds of people. Now he’s used these experiences to write a book entitled, ‘Let's Talk: How to Have Better Conversations’. Here Nihal tells another radio presenter, Michael Rosen, of BBC Radio 4’s, Word of Mouth, about the influence of his mother who also loved talking to people in her job as a nurse:While loneliness is associated with inflammatory biomarkers and impaired immune function, strong and supportive social ties are associated with a whole host of positive health effects, she said. Seeding deeper conversations — at the holiday table and beyond

That actively listening more, providing the speaker with your full and undivided attention, and talking less yourself, is key to holding good conversations From tracing the evolution of dialogue to discovering what lights up in the brain when we're enjoying a good discussion, Nihal speaks to conversational authorities including Lorraine Kelly, former president of Ireland Mary McAleese, Professor Tanya Byron, internationally bestselling author Johann Hari, Matthew Syed, and many more, to find out why good conversation has eroded over time and how we can fix it. Part how-to and part manifesto, Let's Talk is Nihal's accessible, anecdotal and invigorating toolkit to having better conversations with anyone, any time. This might seem like a no-brainer, but if you want to have better conversations, put your phone away. That was good. Thank you so much for an amazing conversation today. I certainly felt the pressure, so hopefully from every podcast now on, I will get better and better following your advice in this episode. So, thank you for spending your time with us today. I loved having you on the show. A “good conversation” here, then, is one that promotes understanding. Good conversations are good for youAnd frankly, the upsides to that, the way that team members often feel a lot more autonomy, they feel that they get a better work/life balance, in many cases, as long as you're not overloading them with meetings, those are nothing to be sneered at, especially in this age of burnout. So, demanding that everybody come into the office, I think in almost every case is extremely wrong-headed. If you haven't seen it, about 34 million of your peers have so go Google it after this podcast. Celeste is also an internationally recognized journalist and radio host, professional speaker, and author of several bestselling books, including We Need to Talk: How to Have Conversations That Matter, Do Nothing: How to Break Away from Overworking, Overdoing, and Underliving, as well as books on race and sexism. So, she is such a wonderful guest to have. Celeste, welcome to the Leadership 480 podcast.